Wikispecs:Village pump

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Welcome to the village pump of Wikispecs. This set of pages is used to discuss the technical issues, policies, and operations of Wikispecs.

We are planning to start using the whole Village pump structure used in Wikipedia. Meanwhile we try to gather issues under the following common headings. Please sign and date your post (by typing four tildes, like 4x~).

Contents 1 Policy 1.1 Titles for articles 1.2 Structure of the articles 1.2.1 Features section 1.2.1.1 Difference between a Feature and a Specification? 1.2.2 Specs section 1.2.3 Links section 1.3 Templates & example pages 1.4 Images & other uploads 1.5 Categories 2 Technical 2.1 Help:Editing 2.2 Templates 2.3 Forced categories!!! 3 Proposals 3.1 Unique ID versus EAN code 3.2 Stubs 3.3 Distributors & other local contacts 3.4 year of product made 4 Assistance 5 Miscellaneous

[edit] Policy

To discuss existing and proposed policies.

[edit] Titles for articles

I think that the titles of the pages should be made quite short. At least any long names that are already beginning to describe the qualities of the product should be shortened. Ie. leaving out at least the 7" from RCA DRC630N Portable 7" DVD Player, maybe also the Portable.

If we would use just the name of the manufacturer and the code of the model, the names would quite easily be converted into other languages and also linking to other pages would be easier. If we would still add the basic description of the product ie. Asus V2S-B1 Notebook it would be a bit clearer when reading a list. But do we need that? If you have searced for products and see a list, you do not need the descriptive text, do you? If we still decide to leave the basic description a good example for naming would be to separate it from the product name with a dash like this: Frigidaire FEB30S5D - Electric Wall Oven.

The strongest point of shortening the names would be the internationalization, meaning if we would have Asus V2S-B1 the same name could be used for all languages. Opinions on that? And all this? LasseS 17:30, 12 June 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Structure of the articles

I think we should start with the structure of the articles. So my opinion is that every product should have:

• Description
• Specifications
• Features
• Reviews On the net - if any exists for this exact product
• Flickr photo's - if any exists for this exact product
• Downloads - for manuals guides and software - if any exists for this exact product

and all these should be in heading (===) tags may be only "description" not. And when we decide the right structure we could make some example pages. Wikispec 15:25, 7 June 2008 (EDT)

I will rewrite the above idea to what I am thinking. I am trying to follow the rules on the Wikipedia:Layout -page. There are some things that apply to us, but not everything, please read and think how the rules could be best applied here.

As Wikispec writes, we should have common headings. Also to my mind the Description chapter should be the Wikipedia:Lead section of the article (please read some guidelines from the Wikipedia article and comment). Then we could go on with the general Features of the product, then list the Specifications according to the product type (or maybe we should use Specs as the heading, would go better with the site name!!). After that I would list all the links under a Links heading. _{See my suggestion on how to sort out the links in the links section.} The fourth main heading could then be the Downloads as also explained in the links chapter.

All these headings should be 'Level 2' -headings (==) because then they will appear in the automatically created 'Table of contents'. The table of contents also requires that there be at least three Level 2 -headings so having all these in the article would be enough to create that. We should think if we want to add the headings even if we have no content in them? It could be a good guideline to classify the article as a stub if it does not contain all the main sections?

If these headings would be accepted as basic headings, we could start discussing them under the appropriate heading in this article below. LasseS 09:47, 21 July 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Features section

This heading would include some kind of short and maybe also quite structured explanation on what the product in question actually does. We should not explain a feature itself, but if there are things that need explaining, we could think of creating separate explanation -pages for that (or link to an explanation on a Wikipedia page). I tried to find some examples on different features section here, please add to it:

• Fuji_FinePix_S5_Pro_Digital_Camera_Body_Only
• Honda_Civic _{(I edited the headings to Wikimedia -style)}

It may not be interesting to see just a long scrolling list of features on a page, or as in the Honda example, a long list of headings, under which there is not too much information. So we should discuss what kind of information should be included in Features and under what subheadings. There should be something a minimum of say 3 and a maximum of say 8-10 subheadings under the features section. These subheadings should be tagged as Level 3 -headings (===) to be shown in the Table of contents.

After a general discussion here, we should start refining the specifications to suit different product types. Maybe we could start writing on product category discussion pages ie. Category_talk:Cars or Category_talk:Audio. LasseS 09:47, 21 July 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Difference between a Feature and a Specification?

It can sometimes be difficult to make a difference between what is a feature and what is a specification. We should discuss these matters more here. I start by suggesting that a feature is something that needs a bit explaining, ie. a technical feature, a special widget, etc. A specification then is a quite predefined most ofter numerical feature of a product; weight, dimension, standard connector, input/output specs etc. Please comment and collaborate! LasseS 10:15, 21 July 2008 (EDT)

Yes a specification should be prеcise information like size, speed, dimensions and also information that should be provided for all products of this type since the feature something that makes it different from the other products of this type. For example if we have a mobile phone: dimensions, size of display, colors of display, memory etc. should be specifications but Wi-Fi (with some explanation maybe), QWERTY keyboard or GPS should be features.

And still I am a bit confused of this problem.. Wikispec 04:25, 22 July 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Specs section

This should be a quite technical list of the qualities of the product such as Dimensions or Weight.

Also these thoughts should be refined to suit the different requirements of different kind of products, and discussed on the product category discussion pages. LasseS 09:47, 21 July 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Links section

I was thinking of a way to put some things under Links heading, because the Reviews are links, and Downloads are also basically links. And I am suggesting that the links section should contain some basic links, like this:

• Product page
• Manual page
• Product image
• Reviews on the net

And maybe if the page for a specific product is not very stable, we should use a link where it would be quite easy to get to the specific product, like:

• Product group page

If there are more than one links per a link heading, we should do as has been done in the Reviews on the net case, like this:

---

• Reviews on the net
  • [Link to a review]
  • [Another link to a review]

---

Then we should think if we will use a Download link separately, or put a general link to a Support page? And more generally, do we want to link directly to a download, or just to a page for downloads? I think we should strive for as stable linking method as possible, but a one that would be as useful as possible. Meaning that if we can link to a static page, it would be preferred, and of course we do not want any session-related links, which do not work for others.. LasseS 17:15, 8 June 2008 (EDT)

A suggestion on the Download -section. If we have direct links to pdf etc. we should put them under Downloads -heading. If the link is onto a page that contains links to downloads, we put them under links section.

I am thinking also the names of the links. There seems to be a common way of linking to the product's page by Manufacturer -name. I have been suggesting the Product page link name, that is because the Manufacturer seems to refer to the whole company and not the specific product. And as there are some links on the product pages that actually link only to the company main page, the name Product page (or something else like it) would be more describing. I know that the name has been used a lot, but how about trying to change the policy? Comments?? LasseS 08:05, 21 July 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Templates & example pages

When structures for articles have been planned properly, we should create template pages, or just link to good example pages for every separate product group we have. The example discussion should be started under product group categories discussion pages such as Category_talk:Cars. The link mentioned should be edited to quickly explain the basic structure (or just link to these pages).

Some kind of automatic template creation would be great to have, so that when a new page is created to a certain main category, it would already contain the essential elements for that product group. But waiting for that to happen, we should just find good pages from the database and link to them. Then again, we could also create some kind of static empty example pages, with the headings at place LasseS 05:31, 5 January 2009 (EST)

I just created a template to be the base for general documents. For now there are basically just the headings. And I found the way to include that to a page! The template is at Template:Headings. It can be substituted permanently in an article by writing:

{{subst:Template:Headings}}

Note! It will first have to be saved once, only then it will render itself as a static wikipage.

We just tweak the page to our standards and find a way to run this template at page creation, and we have a standardized way of creating pages! LasseS 07:35, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Another template I created now is here: Template:Manufacturer. It can be added to a category page of a manufacturer. Maybe even without substitution if the links are left outside the template! I made an example of this category: Category:Boston Acoustics Range Speakers LasseS 09:27, 12 January 2009 (EST)

The templates could be very helpful especially with specifications and features - and I like the structure of the template you created , but actually it cannot be used directly -because if you put {{Headings}} to a new page it includes the text from the template but you cannot insert text (for example specifications) inside.To edit the text inside templates we must have parameters which are given when calling the template you could look here : help:template.But this way I think will be too complicated.

So my proposal is since all the articles will have the structure you created in your template:Headings to make it this- when someone clicks "create this page" instead of empty textarea to see the text of template:headings written inside automatically?What do you think about this ? Wikispec 04:01, 5 February 2009 (EST)

Well that is just what I tried to explain when I wrote about running this template at page creation! When we run this template with the subst: -option it will only copy itself onto the page. But that happens only after you have saved the document once. After that the page would show itself as a basic page that can be written inbetween the headings and all.. So then we'll just have to find a way to do that automatically. LasseS 04:44, 5 February 2009 (EST)

I just installed an extension that ads this text template:Boilerplate to the page each time a new page is created.It also has the option to run load different templates based on the title of the new page which I think could a pretty good feature.

Wikispec 09:17, 9 February 2009 (EST)

[edit] Images & other uploads

I think we should confirm to the Wikipedia guidelines for uploading images and other content. This could also apply to manuals in pdf -format and such. We should write some simple instructions and appropriate warnings on copyrights and such on the Special:Upload page. LasseS 11:46, 21 July 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Categories

What is the good amount and quality of categories?

The basic idea is, that we have a larger category for any product in the database ie. Category:Audio or Category:Computers. Then there is always some kind of subcategory for the specific product ie. Category:Digital Cameras. But what if there is a long path of categories that refine the definition of the product ie.

• Category:Audio
• Category:Effects
• Category:Gates

Should we leave out the Effects category from the Gates category (see example Drawmer MX30). Or not?

[Now I saw another issue. If we have a category Gates, it is just fine (at least for me) in the audio category, but if we add products such as Garden gates or Driveway gates, physical gates, we run into problems. Should we include somehow the main category in the subcategory, like Effects:Gates or Gate effects? Then again, this is not a problem for all products, so it would not be necessary to use it everywhere. How to act?]

My suggestion was that we should start putting the Manufacturer as a category in every product. So we can better classify the increasing amount of products. So you first add a category of the name of the manufacturer, then if the manufacturer category does not yet link to anything, you add the category to Category:Manufacturers.

In this way the user can click to the whole list of a certain manufacturers products. And in the case of large global manufacturers, as has been done already (see ie. Category:Panasonic), we should start subcategorizing like Category:Panasonic Digital Cameras. To some extent we agreed that we should retain the main manufacturer category, so that it would be easier to browse to the main company site from any product page. I was at first thinking that it would clear up the category page, when the products belonging to the subcategory would disappear. Now including the whole "path" of categories seems ok with me too. Comments?

Then, if we try to use the category page of the manufacturer, it does not seem to come up in the searches, so you would have to search for a product first and only from there click to the manufacturer page. It would be nice to search by manufacturers..

And after all this if we have a product in Category:Panasonic Digital Cameras it would then basically belong also into Category:Digital Cameras. Would this be the first case where we should drop the redundant double category..? LasseS 03:42, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

Anything else about the categories , it doesn't concern the hierarchical structure of the site but I wanted to mention it here.In mobile phones for example I insert sometimes categories like Category:PDAs or Category:QWERTY Phones I think it is better for browsing the site people to be able to see all other phones from this type - may be similar categories like this will appear in other products too.What about this?? Wikispec 04:51, 12 June 2008 (EDT)

I think this is just refining the categories, they are not in a hierarchy and can cross boundaries. Every product has a large category and a somewhat hierarchical subcategory. And then there are categories that define some qualities of the product. My example in Category:Audio is to start categorizing by the connectors, I have a Category:Connectors:XLR as a small test there. These are qualities that can be basically in any product. We just have to think if we have to write them in this Quality:value subcategory fashion or some other way.. LasseS 05:03, 12 June 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Technical

To discuss technical issues.

[edit] Help:Editing

The Help:Editing -page does not exist here. It would help to see the general editing commands from that page.

Help:Page Editing is the same page for us.It is very poor now and needs expanding .

Wikispec 06:08, 23 July 2008 (EDT)

I recreated the Help:Editing page and linked it to the wikipedia:Wikipedia:Cheatsheet -page. Also added a link to Help:Page Editing. LasseS 07:45, 5 January 2009 (EST)

[edit] Templates

Another issue maybe related to the version of this mediawiki arose. I tried to use Template:Information to add information to an image but it did not exist. Maybe update would help here? The template seems like a good way to show information about the image, more information here. LasseS 10:03, 21 July 2008 (EDT)

Actually it is not a problem of the version of media wiki - I have looked through the wikipedia's template:information and it is a template they have created so I may try to create the same for wikispecs..

04:25, 22 July 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Forced categories!!!

It is a great idea to force the three categories to be included in a document. But now the categories would have to be inserted everytime you edit a simple section of a document!! So it does not matter if the document already contains the categories, the script (or whatever it is) only seems to check if the currently edited piece of text contains the required cats or not...

Also the link to categories does not seem to work...LasseS 07:45, 5 January 2009 (EST)

[edit] Proposals

[edit] Unique ID versus EAN code

My proposal is to make a module, where any new article to get a unique ID. This will help users on the net to refer to these items when they don’t want to make a link to the item. Also this ID will help price portals to use it as a general reference in the future and solve the problem of the EAN code. Moreover, this unique ID will help manufacturers and brands to have a standard reference ID without need to pay money to get an EAN code etc. I think will be helpful for small manufacturers who they don't have money to spend. My proposal is the ID to be generated by the site as soon as any new page is created. This will have to appear with bold on the top right of any article. Will be like the ID of ebay auctions. Please think about and feel fee to write your ideas about. Productive 02:00, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

I have not looked very much into product codes, but it would be great to be able to use an existing code such as EAN. Don't almost all product have an EAN code then? How about using EAN when there is one and creating our own when there is not? LasseS 08:30, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

If we go to an ID solution we may give an ID to all products and work independently of the EAN code. However providing the EAN code is not bad as well. Productive 16:00, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

May be the best will be to provide Unique ID for every product and as additional info EAN code for every product we could find it.Why should we choose one of the two options. Wikispec 10:59, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Stubs

Anything else which is very important are the stubs.I was thinking to create a template for stubs but may be the best is to have different types of stubs , like it is in wikipedia - for different types of products.I am thinking on this and may be will start creating these days.Do you have any suggestions?

I have created the template - you could see - {{stub}} and a page for stub information - WikiSpecs:Stub I will expand it later.

[edit] Distributors & other local contacts

By distributors I may mean any contacts in the country you live in, who is selling the product, where to find local support and service for the products etc. This is a feature I would like to have at least in the future. This data is basicly country related, or language related. Then again sorting by language does not necessarily come down to sorting by countries.

How should we consider building language related sites from this english version? Maybe it is too much work to start language sites for this kind of purposes at this stage. These links maybe could start off being within the page. Or now I get it, maybe just put a link to a distributors page on the manufacturer site, that would help! LasseS 04:01, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

I thinkg this kind of information would be really very helpful, if it is detailed - but as you said it is country even sometimes city related which makes things very complicated(about the language versions I think it is not a problem to have contacts for all countries in the english version).May be we could start adding adding the distributors we could and in some way stimulate people to add more.We should think more on this

Wikispec 14:09, 26 August 2008 (EDT)

[edit] year of product made

I think it's neccesary to add this information in all products since it is helpful and will help us categorize better the products. Moreover this new attribute will reply to a simple question of the visitors, i.e. Which is the newest model of nokia mobile phones" and so on.. Productive 10:10, 05 September 2008 (EDT)

Yes, this would be the 1st year of production, then maybe later we will have to think of the lifespan of the product, and mark the end of it. And that comes to thinking about the yearly published new version of the same model, like with cars and such. LasseS 02:14, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Assistance

To post requests for assistance not covered by the Help pages.

[edit] Miscellaneous

To post messages that do not fit into any other category